I've been part of a lot of different online communities — like someone mentioned before, lots of FB groups or Slack communities. It seems like there comes a point when the communities get so large that they depart from what the original intention was of uniting people for a common reason into something less engaging and more transactional. E.g. where members view the group as a place where they can go to promote themselves or their services/wares to others that maybe have a shred of relevance to the group at large. What sorts of interventions or obligations do you have as a community builder to hedge against that?
Thanks for contributing Jamie. It's a challenge to keep conversations meaningful/purposeful/on topic as a community grows. I think the two big levers a leader has are 1) structure and 2) more leaders.
Structure = expectations/a code to outline what is/isn't talked about in a certain space. Here's a guide we've cited before: https://opensource.guide/code-of-conduct/
More leaders = moderators, etc. to help spotlight standout contributions, role model behaviors, and enforce the code as needed.
All that said, I feel you on your point about growing communities feeling less engaging. Sometimes as a group gets bigger you have to intentionally organize smaller things to continue realizing that original purpose.
Mine was an app called BERNHARD that will send you an alert when there is dog poo on your way. And my monetisation model was an affiliate dog supply shop. I wasn’t able to convince any developer to built this thing 🤔
My answer: *Committed, capable* leaders are the secret to a thriving community. The tools matter less than the leaders.
At P&C we are committed to helping build the *capacity* of people who want to lead communities. Sharing fundamental principles, inspiring stories, and resources.
But what we can't do is create commitment. Leaders have to be devoted and keep hosting, keep the drumbeat going. That has to come from within.
First off, thanks for participating today Greg! Glad to be acquainted. Thought about this question over lunch...
My answer: I've gained clarity on what I care about. It's not about community for community's sake. It's not about exploring the word "community." I care about helping folks bridge gaps to do more together—to support each other, accomplish goals, and increase the likelihood that we'll collaborate with people outside of our immediate bubbles.
Personal opinion: gaps are widening. Gaps between rich and poor, between countries, backgrounds, coworkers, families... And I care about helping folks reverse that by getting people together in different ways. 🌉
absolutely, thanks for putting the event on and thanks for looping back here to share your thoughts. That's some big, impactful, and inspiring clarity 🙂 "increase the likelihood that we'll collaborate with people outside of our immediate bubbles," that'll stick with me
Hi y'all! I'm not sure how best to get in touch with you, but thank you for hosting this event! It was SO NICE to be with other community builders. Even just for the short time.
I wrote to the Circle.so guys and they'd be happy to show you their platform, if you'd like. It's an invite-only thing right now I guess. But it's fully functional, and by far my favorite member site right now. Here's what they wrote:
///
Hi Ki!
Absolutely -- would *love* to connect with them if they're up for it. We're working with customers + communities where we think we're the ideal tool for them and they're a perfect use-case for us. I'd be happy to give them a demo next week.
Can you create a structure and permission for your members to do this themselves, like the donut integration does? I'd jot the program idea - what the expectations are, what the name of the lil program is - and run it by some community members to see if it's interesting.
Love all of this, thank you! I've actually been connecting my members 1:1 for a while now and it's proven to be the most impactful part of my community (based on their feedback). I'm going to lean in harder into tightening up this experience for them and I'll take a look at all of these resources you provided. Feel free to check out my community if you're interested (I actually did office hours with Kevin a while back and he was SO helpful)! www.badassery-hq.com
This quote from our friend Christina Xu is an inspiration to me:
"Whether it’s an invitation to an event, a call to action, a piece of art, or a literal flare, the signal is how you get the attention of the people you are trying to gather… The best signals are the ones that find people who actually want to connect on their own terms."
The more specific the signal, the more powerful it is IMO. That's counter to mass marketing. Beam your vibe!
And, we always say: BUILD WITH. Giving your people the encouragement and assets to spread the word *with* you is so crucial. Don't try to recruit alone!
One group that's great at both of those points is NOVEMBER PROJECT. (Would love to hear others if you have them!).
We never published this, but here's something we wrote about them a while ago:
The November Project is a grassroots fitness movement that started in Boston in 2011. Early in the morning, founders Brogan Graham and Bojan Mandaric would rally people to run hill sprints, tackle stadium stairs, and make it through sit-ups and push-ups together. Their workouts began with hugs, high-fives, and applause for any first-timers. Within a few months, hundreds were attending Brogan and Bojan’s workouts, and out-of-towners were showing interest in exporting the program to other cities. They’ve since expanded to over 47 cities around the world in large part because every member knows it’s on them to #RecruitEveryone they know.
Chapter leaders make explicit to every November Project athlete that the more people who attend, the more fun workouts will be for everyone involved. At workouts, leaders provide simple “recruiting papers” to attendees, who are expected to pass them out to potential new members. Outside of workouts, November Project leaders ask members to gather in bars with scissor, paper, and empty cereal boxes for “Recruiting Paper Parties.” They stamp paper, cut the paper and some cardboard to match, and glue it all together to make the cardboard discs members use to recruit new people.
Members take that sense of responsibility to heart, distributing these simple invitations in all sorts of creative ways, from giving them out on their city’s popular running paths early in the morning, to handing them to new acquaintances instead of business cards, to using them as noise makers in bicycle spokes.
You can’t expect people to recruit others without a nudge. Make it clear to members that their active involvement is crucial to spreading the word.
Do you think we have reached “peak digital community?” Been hearing a lot about Slack group, Facebook group, and Zoom hangout fatigue lately. Our time and capacity to participate meaningfully online is obviously capped, but thousands of new digital communities and events are launching every day. Will only the best communities survive amid the saturation?
Great question! I suspect us humans need interaction so intrinsically, and the scientists are saying that loneliness is already a "pandemic" of sorts, so I think we will still need an want meaningful communities and seek them wherever we can.
My worry is that people are so focused on building tools and companies, and we lack focus on building leaders for those spaces - people with the capacity to make these spaces and groups meaningful.
I think a lot of people are confused about *how* to create meaningful spaces and interactions online. That's the problem that needs more attention IMO.
Totally agree! There's a misconception that creating *more* events, Slack channels, etc. will help us feel more connected right now, but I couldn't disagree more. Instead, the conversation should be around what our members want and working backwards from there. For example, I sent my community a "How Can We Help?" email about a month back, and the biggest request was to simply feel a sense of connectedness. I've shifted my events strategy to fit what they need (which is constantly changing), not the other way around.
I love this too. Yeah definitely feeling Zoomed out myself! I've been seeking nature, and soul care. Looking more for internal quiet time, since our lives have become so suddenly full. (For parents, community builders, etc.)
My own hope is that some of the "faceless" communities begin to fade out, and smaller communities with what I call "True Glue" fade in. I do believe people will begin really reflecting on what is worth their time & attention, what nurtures them, and what is serving their needs. Which is a REALLY GOOD thing.
What non-obvious tech tools do you see well-run communities using to connect with their people? If that question isn't fruitful, what tools (tech or otherwise) do you each strongly recommend? :)
Hey Greg! I have a HUGE list. I tried to send you my email but it was probably too fast on Zoom... if you want to send me an email and let me know what types of solutions/problems you have, I'd be happy to share my ideas! Also I'm launching my online co-working space soon, called Real People Work. Could chat more in there as well. :) You can msg me at realpeople (at) mailbox.org
I'd say my biggest mistake was around the Terms of Service at Instagram.
It was a failure of communication and empathy. We didn't realize how sensitive our most passionate community members were about the platform changing when we got to Facebook.
Because FB was a big, public company, it also made it harder for us to communicate quickly and clearly with our community in the wake of it all. When we were just 13 people working in a small office, it was easier to respond and address any kerfuffles. But having so many stakeholders slowed our response, and only made the issue swell day by day. People were suspect of our silence.
We address this in our book a bit through a similar story from YouTube's first community manager - Mia Quagliarello. Shout out Mia! - but there are clear tips from the field of crisis communications on how to better address miscommunications or missteps with your community.
Here's what we wrote in our book:
Take inspiration from crisis communication experts when you are seeking to remedy a tense situation:
1. Take ownership quickly.
Only when you own your misstep can you begin to earn back respect. As quickly as you can, acknowledge the negative impact of a decision you made. This will help keep fear and distrust from swelling among your members, and will start the healing process.
2. Be transparent.
When your community cries foul, you’ve likely eroded some of the trust that your people had in you, the leader, or in headquarters. You’re now under more scrutiny than normal.
To reestablish trust, be up-front. Provide correct, thorough information and a clear action plan in order to reduce speculation. The more information you hide, the more you risk losing even more trust, damaging relationships beyond repair.
3. Go deep with key community members.
Take extra time to speak with longtime members and emerging leaders in your community about the crisis or conflict. They can help you communicate clearly and sincerely to other memberstheir constituents.
Now that you’ve responded quickly and with transparency, the final step is to internalize what you’ve learned from the experience. You hit a nerve with your community, and in doing so unearthed something that you didn’t know your people were sensitive about. To avoid another challenging situation, allow the knowledge of this sensitivity to inform future decisions that affect your community, and to guide how you’ll communicate those changes.
As you face these growing pains, remember: when members communicate frustrations to you, it’s a good sign. It means that your people are paying attention and they’re invested in this community, just like you.
I've been part of a lot of different online communities — like someone mentioned before, lots of FB groups or Slack communities. It seems like there comes a point when the communities get so large that they depart from what the original intention was of uniting people for a common reason into something less engaging and more transactional. E.g. where members view the group as a place where they can go to promote themselves or their services/wares to others that maybe have a shred of relevance to the group at large. What sorts of interventions or obligations do you have as a community builder to hedge against that?
Thanks for contributing Jamie. It's a challenge to keep conversations meaningful/purposeful/on topic as a community grows. I think the two big levers a leader has are 1) structure and 2) more leaders.
Structure = expectations/a code to outline what is/isn't talked about in a certain space. Here's a guide we've cited before: https://opensource.guide/code-of-conduct/
More leaders = moderators, etc. to help spotlight standout contributions, role model behaviors, and enforce the code as needed.
All that said, I feel you on your point about growing communities feeling less engaging. Sometimes as a group gets bigger you have to intentionally organize smaller things to continue realizing that original purpose.
What do you think?
Alan here: what was the funniest or absurd idea of a product/solution/space the three of you came up with since you work together? 🍎
LOL. Starting a popcorn company. No joke! Maybe we'll still do it :)
Mine was an app called BERNHARD that will send you an alert when there is dog poo on your way. And my monetisation model was an affiliate dog supply shop. I wasn’t able to convince any developer to built this thing 🤔
A t-shirt where the front is someone's face and the back of the tee is the back of their head. 🤷♀️
How has your thinking about community and community building changed since you started People & Co, released 39 interviews via your podcast, etc...?
My answer: *Committed, capable* leaders are the secret to a thriving community. The tools matter less than the leaders.
At P&C we are committed to helping build the *capacity* of people who want to lead communities. Sharing fundamental principles, inspiring stories, and resources.
But what we can't do is create commitment. Leaders have to be devoted and keep hosting, keep the drumbeat going. That has to come from within.
First off, thanks for participating today Greg! Glad to be acquainted. Thought about this question over lunch...
My answer: I've gained clarity on what I care about. It's not about community for community's sake. It's not about exploring the word "community." I care about helping folks bridge gaps to do more together—to support each other, accomplish goals, and increase the likelihood that we'll collaborate with people outside of our immediate bubbles.
Personal opinion: gaps are widening. Gaps between rich and poor, between countries, backgrounds, coworkers, families... And I care about helping folks reverse that by getting people together in different ways. 🌉
absolutely, thanks for putting the event on and thanks for looping back here to share your thoughts. That's some big, impactful, and inspiring clarity 🙂 "increase the likelihood that we'll collaborate with people outside of our immediate bubbles," that'll stick with me
Hi y'all! I'm not sure how best to get in touch with you, but thank you for hosting this event! It was SO NICE to be with other community builders. Even just for the short time.
I wrote to the Circle.so guys and they'd be happy to show you their platform, if you'd like. It's an invite-only thing right now I guess. But it's fully functional, and by far my favorite member site right now. Here's what they wrote:
///
Hi Ki!
Absolutely -- would *love* to connect with them if they're up for it. We're working with customers + communities where we think we're the ideal tool for them and they're a perfect use-case for us. I'd be happy to give them a demo next week.
Otherwise, hope you're well!
-Andy
///
Their email is:
hello at circle.so
Sending real love & virtual hugs :D
~Ki
Do you have any thoughts around how connect members of a larger community 1:1 for deeper relationship building?
I think that is SUCH a great instinct. The more powerful those 1:1 or small group connections are within the community, the stronger the community is.
(Right now especially. Big group conversations online are very hard to get value out of sometimes...)
One community who does this well is the Chief of Staffs community we interviewed: https://gettogether.fm/episodes/cos-tech-network
They use that simple donut Slack integration to pair members up automatically for 1:1 coffees/ donut meetings. https://slack.com/apps/A11MJ51SR-donut
Can you create a structure and permission for your members to do this themselves, like the donut integration does? I'd jot the program idea - what the expectations are, what the name of the lil program is - and run it by some community members to see if it's interesting.
Also - Zoom breakout rooms are a GREAT tool for this.
Love all of this, thank you! I've actually been connecting my members 1:1 for a while now and it's proven to be the most impactful part of my community (based on their feedback). I'm going to lean in harder into tightening up this experience for them and I'll take a look at all of these resources you provided. Feel free to check out my community if you're interested (I actually did office hours with Kevin a while back and he was SO helpful)! www.badassery-hq.com
Glad to see you in this thread Danielle! Appreciate you and the work that you do with badassery. Holler if you'd like to catch up soon. 👋
For sure! I have your email, so I'll reach out to you to schedule some time 🥳
Hey Danielle! I love the idea of your new community! Is there a way to try out an event before signing up?
Hey Ki so happy to hear that! Yes, we have a couple of open events coming up:
-Podcasting - Finding Your Why: https://www.badassery-hq.com/events/podcasting-why
-Icebreaker Monday (event pw = BadassesUnite): https://www.badassery-hq.com/events/icebreaker-mondays-0504
Hope to see you at one or both! Happy to answer any other Q's you may have :)
I'll be there!! Thank you!
Do you have any advice for recruiting new community members? Any specific channels/ways to promote?
This quote from our friend Christina Xu is an inspiration to me:
"Whether it’s an invitation to an event, a call to action, a piece of art, or a literal flare, the signal is how you get the attention of the people you are trying to gather… The best signals are the ones that find people who actually want to connect on their own terms."
The more specific the signal, the more powerful it is IMO. That's counter to mass marketing. Beam your vibe!
And, we always say: BUILD WITH. Giving your people the encouragement and assets to spread the word *with* you is so crucial. Don't try to recruit alone!
One group that's great at both of those points is NOVEMBER PROJECT. (Would love to hear others if you have them!).
We never published this, but here's something we wrote about them a while ago:
The November Project is a grassroots fitness movement that started in Boston in 2011. Early in the morning, founders Brogan Graham and Bojan Mandaric would rally people to run hill sprints, tackle stadium stairs, and make it through sit-ups and push-ups together. Their workouts began with hugs, high-fives, and applause for any first-timers. Within a few months, hundreds were attending Brogan and Bojan’s workouts, and out-of-towners were showing interest in exporting the program to other cities. They’ve since expanded to over 47 cities around the world in large part because every member knows it’s on them to #RecruitEveryone they know.
Chapter leaders make explicit to every November Project athlete that the more people who attend, the more fun workouts will be for everyone involved. At workouts, leaders provide simple “recruiting papers” to attendees, who are expected to pass them out to potential new members. Outside of workouts, November Project leaders ask members to gather in bars with scissor, paper, and empty cereal boxes for “Recruiting Paper Parties.” They stamp paper, cut the paper and some cardboard to match, and glue it all together to make the cardboard discs members use to recruit new people.
Members take that sense of responsibility to heart, distributing these simple invitations in all sorts of creative ways, from giving them out on their city’s popular running paths early in the morning, to handing them to new acquaintances instead of business cards, to using them as noise makers in bicycle spokes.
You can’t expect people to recruit others without a nudge. Make it clear to members that their active involvement is crucial to spreading the word.
Thank you! 100% agree about leaning into current members for referrals. That's where the real magic happens :)
Do you think we have reached “peak digital community?” Been hearing a lot about Slack group, Facebook group, and Zoom hangout fatigue lately. Our time and capacity to participate meaningfully online is obviously capped, but thousands of new digital communities and events are launching every day. Will only the best communities survive amid the saturation?
Great question! I suspect us humans need interaction so intrinsically, and the scientists are saying that loneliness is already a "pandemic" of sorts, so I think we will still need an want meaningful communities and seek them wherever we can.
My worry is that people are so focused on building tools and companies, and we lack focus on building leaders for those spaces - people with the capacity to make these spaces and groups meaningful.
I think a lot of people are confused about *how* to create meaningful spaces and interactions online. That's the problem that needs more attention IMO.
What does everyone else think?
Totally agree! There's a misconception that creating *more* events, Slack channels, etc. will help us feel more connected right now, but I couldn't disagree more. Instead, the conversation should be around what our members want and working backwards from there. For example, I sent my community a "How Can We Help?" email about a month back, and the biggest request was to simply feel a sense of connectedness. I've shifted my events strategy to fit what they need (which is constantly changing), not the other way around.
Wonderful! I love it!
I love this too. Yeah definitely feeling Zoomed out myself! I've been seeking nature, and soul care. Looking more for internal quiet time, since our lives have become so suddenly full. (For parents, community builders, etc.)
My own hope is that some of the "faceless" communities begin to fade out, and smaller communities with what I call "True Glue" fade in. I do believe people will begin really reflecting on what is worth their time & attention, what nurtures them, and what is serving their needs. Which is a REALLY GOOD thing.
one more for now then I'll 🤐: who, or what books/blogs/other resources, do you each turn to when looking to learn more about community?
Thanks for the questions :)
We have *all* of our favorite resources in here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qYk-rSHw9aUic3j5DiP5MgJOCu6uRrRrHI-izgHyzGU/edit?usp=sharing. (Add yours!)
But here are a few of my favorites:
* Laura Nestler is brilliant. This episode on how she built the Duolingo offline language communities with local leaders is great: https://blog.bevylabs.com/how-duolingo-hosts-500-events-a-month-and-you-can-too/
* This article on the NYT Cooking section's community is special to me: https://www.theringer.com/2019/2/7/18214477/nytcooking-comment-section
* Recently discovered this course at Georgia Tech, which has amazing resources: https://www.cc.gatech.edu/~asb/teaching/oc/17/schedule.html
Anyone have other links or resources to add in here? Please do!
Thanks for sharing all ^ this! I'm going through the Georgia Tech syllabus rrrright now, what a find
What non-obvious tech tools do you see well-run communities using to connect with their people? If that question isn't fruitful, what tools (tech or otherwise) do you each strongly recommend? :)
Hey Greg! I have a HUGE list. I tried to send you my email but it was probably too fast on Zoom... if you want to send me an email and let me know what types of solutions/problems you have, I'd be happy to share my ideas! Also I'm launching my online co-working space soon, called Real People Work. Could chat more in there as well. :) You can msg me at realpeople (at) mailbox.org
What was your biggest mistake as a community organizer? What did you learn and how has that informed what you share/teach to organizers today?
I'd say my biggest mistake was around the Terms of Service at Instagram.
It was a failure of communication and empathy. We didn't realize how sensitive our most passionate community members were about the platform changing when we got to Facebook.
Because FB was a big, public company, it also made it harder for us to communicate quickly and clearly with our community in the wake of it all. When we were just 13 people working in a small office, it was easier to respond and address any kerfuffles. But having so many stakeholders slowed our response, and only made the issue swell day by day. People were suspect of our silence.
We address this in our book a bit through a similar story from YouTube's first community manager - Mia Quagliarello. Shout out Mia! - but there are clear tips from the field of crisis communications on how to better address miscommunications or missteps with your community.
Here's what we wrote in our book:
Take inspiration from crisis communication experts when you are seeking to remedy a tense situation:
1. Take ownership quickly.
Only when you own your misstep can you begin to earn back respect. As quickly as you can, acknowledge the negative impact of a decision you made. This will help keep fear and distrust from swelling among your members, and will start the healing process.
2. Be transparent.
When your community cries foul, you’ve likely eroded some of the trust that your people had in you, the leader, or in headquarters. You’re now under more scrutiny than normal.
To reestablish trust, be up-front. Provide correct, thorough information and a clear action plan in order to reduce speculation. The more information you hide, the more you risk losing even more trust, damaging relationships beyond repair.
3. Go deep with key community members.
Take extra time to speak with longtime members and emerging leaders in your community about the crisis or conflict. They can help you communicate clearly and sincerely to other memberstheir constituents.
Now that you’ve responded quickly and with transparency, the final step is to internalize what you’ve learned from the experience. You hit a nerve with your community, and in doing so unearthed something that you didn’t know your people were sensitive about. To avoid another challenging situation, allow the knowledge of this sensitivity to inform future decisions that affect your community, and to guide how you’ll communicate those changes.
As you face these growing pains, remember: when members communicate frustrations to you, it’s a good sign. It means that your people are paying attention and they’re invested in this community, just like you.
Hey there, is this the "Popcorn Hour"? Or am I in the wrong place?
This is IT
We are just going live on YouTube now :)
Got any questions for us?